Chasing the Wind

28 responses to “The Da Vinci Code is Anti-Christian”

1. Dark Christianity

   May 11, 2006 at 4:15 pm

   https://chasingthewind.net/?p=1308 It’s a blog, and it seems like a minor point, but I found it sadly humorous, especially when the blogger didn’t ‘get’ the sarcasm in one of the comments. I mean really, question your faith? Wonder about it? Think about it? No, fool – the Bible is 100%

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2. 

   TheOzz

   May 10, 2006 at 1:18 pm

   Amen Brother… We should not under any circumstances suggest that it is OK for Christians or anyone else to see this movie. I have already heard Christians speak of the doubt concerning the Word of God that trickled into their minds after reading “The Da Vinci Code”. A expect a movie done by the likes of Howard and Hanks to be even more powerful at delivering the distorted messages delivered by this lump of fiction called “The Da Vinci Code”.

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3. 

   Davebo

   May 10, 2006 at 4:56 pm

   Hello, it’s a thing called fiction…

   If people read it and begin to doubt the church, then those people are idiots.

   King Kong never really climbed the Empire State Building you know..

   If your’s (or anyone elses) faith can be dashed by a fictional novel or movie, you had a pretty shaky foundation to begin with.

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4. 

   Michael

   May 10, 2006 at 8:53 pm

   If 40 million bought the book and 28% doubt the bible more, I don’t have the gall you do to label 11.2 million people as idiots. You must be a pretty smart feller.

   The author himself states the book is fiction, but then has gone on to say that if he was to publish it as fact he wouldn’t change a thing. He obviously wrote it to confuse young Christians or to persuade people not to become Christians in the first place.

   Fiction, yes, but still a blatant and blasphemous broadside against Christianity.

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5. 

   Diane

   May 10, 2006 at 10:04 pm

   Author Dan Brown had to choose between ‘fiction’ or ‘non fiction’ as his label and he picked fiction because of some made-up characters…but on all of his talk-show appearances and the movie promotion tag-lines, he states the research is historical…”discover the truth…”

   Clearly, he aims to have us believe his storey.

   He is taking a shot at my Church and then hiding behind the mantle of ‘fiction’…remember, Satan makes evil attractive and interesting, like this ‘entertainment’, and we participate by seeing it….DON’T DO IT! Don’t make this movie a success. For those strong-willed ones, go protest May 19 and 20….I’ll be there.

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6. 

   Michael

   May 11, 2006 at 7:38 am

   If Satan wanted to seed doubt among Christians, being blatantly evil doesn’t work. That chases too many people into the arms of Jesus.

   Now, being subtle, mixing fact and fiction and claiming to be fact when convenient and fiction when criticized, why, that’s the sort of deviousnous we could expect from Satan. He must be chortling with joy that he has some Christians defending blasphemy.

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7. 

   LittleOrangeFox

   May 11, 2006 at 8:20 am

   I consider the idea of following that book like it was a cult is like a group of people watchin Indiana Jones and saying “Omygoodness that is so true…I’m going to go search for that grail now!” Fiction, fantasy.

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8. 

   get@life.com

   May 11, 2006 at 8:49 am

   Dude, like this whole thing is just completely bumming me out. I can’t believe how many people seem to buy into this whole the Bible isn’t historical fact thing. It’s like they don’t understand that 150 years after Christ, when, like the guys in the caves actually learned to, like, read and write, that they absolutely did not make any mistakes in the perfectly conveyed, like, oral histories, man. Not to mention that one of the apostles was around then to help clear things up, since he was, like 75 years late to the party, man.

   I am SO bummed at these people. The next thing you know they will be trying to convince me that this whole “Nicene Creed” thing was some sort of political compromise between groups of people who had all collectively and individually thought they knew the Truth of Our Lord.

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9. 

   Michael

   May 11, 2006 at 8:59 am

   Getalife, the written word can be unclear; I think you’re being sarcastic but I can’t be sure. So, are you saying –

   a) that the bible is historical fact and it’s hard to understand those that doubt it, or

   b) the bible is *not* historical fact and it’s hard to understand those that believe it?

   The first position os consistent with evangelical Christianity. The second position is not applicable to non-Christians and insulting to those that are.

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10. 

    Diz Lechszia

    May 11, 2006 at 11:58 am

    You people are so amazingly clue-free. This all reads like some elaborate Stephen Colbert skit, but the sad part is that you are all for real.

    The Da Vinci Code “heresy” has been around for centuries. As far back as the early years of Christianity, the very early years, it was not just suggested but flat out stated that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene. The only reason this “heresy” became a “heresy” was because the orthodox Christians managed to get access to Constantine’s throne before the so-called Gnostics did, and used their political leverage to eradicate Gnosticism. Read your history, folks.

    If anyone’s faith is going to be destroyed by a movie, they weren’t very faithful to begin with. What alienated me from Christianity was not a movie or a book, but the intolerance, stupidity, and anti-intellectualism of people like you and most of the respondents here. You can’t tell the difference between fiction and fact, you won’t entertain any ideas other than the ones you have been brainwashed into believing.

    You swallow a camel and strain at a gnat; you get worked up about the Da Vinci Code but say nothing of Darfur, which if we follow Jesus’ true teachings, is far more of an offense in the eyes of God than anything Ron Howard or Tom Hanks could ever do. Blind guides of the blind, indeed.

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11. 

    Michael

    May 11, 2006 at 12:25 pm

    Your history of “heresy” doesn’t match the history I’ve read. Obviously, fiction has already sabotoged your faith long before “The Da Vinci Code” was written and you choose to believe what you will.

    Your criticism is intolerant of Christians, “stupid and anti-intellectual.” In short, you are guilty of the very thing you are complaining against. What would it take for you to sympathize with Christians instead of joining the fight against them?

    I don’t harbor any misconceptions of fact and fiction, and I’m well aware that The Da Vinci Code is fiction. Blasphemous fiction that sways those of weak or no faith is to be opposed. You obviously haven’t been exposed enough to Christ’s true message of love, and apparently already sabotoged by this fiction of heresy you’ve mentioned. God bless you in your struggle to find truth and love. The answer is Christ.

    P.S. The link to contribute to the fight in Darfur is on the left sidepanel and has been there for months. Feel free to click and contribute.

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12. 

    Michael

    May 11, 2006 at 12:27 pm

    I find it amusing that so far those that recognize the damage this movie causes post their real email or website. The rest that insult Christians and call them “anti-intellectuals” and “intolerant” use fake email addresses and websites.

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13. 

    Get@life.com

    May 11, 2006 at 12:29 pm

    Michael – Let me be clear: I applaud Christians who truly study the Bible, not just what it says, but how it was constructed. Even in our modern times, “reinterpretations” like “The Good News Bible” have relevancy to a life in faith, but cannot, with any seriousness by a modern person, be considered the infallible Word of Our Lord. It is a mystery (perhaps of faith) why we frequently grant a higher level of credibility to the King James version, which was specifically done as a way to codify different interpretations into a single work, accessible to the English people. This is before we deal with the issues surrounding the translations from Aramaic into Greek and Greek into Latin.

    If you find this perspective insulting, then let me say that I applaud the staunchness of your Faith – in Man. I, on the other hand, along with a number of others of Faith, am interested in finding out what meaning I may take from things like “The Dead Sea Scrolls” and the other documents coming from our Coptic brothers which we are just now finding.

    Given our increasingly complex world, could it be in His plan that our understanding of His Word should become more complex, rather than less? I do not know, but I am willing to use the brain that he gave me to try to find out. The good thing about being a protestant is that I do not bow spiritually to anyone but the King of the Kingdom of God. Thus, I am free to find my own path into His Sight, absent the interference of the influences of the physical world.

    Personally, I plan to attempt the path of the Prince of Peace. As a result, if others find their faith challenged, then perhaps theirs is not sufficient to see them all the way through. If yet others feel the need to attack and not heed the COMMAND to turn the other cheek, then they, too, may find their path ultimately blocked. For me, My Rock is unshakeable, and I am merely curious what its many shapes and forms may take.

    So, if I have caused offense, then I apologize, but one should not be offended if one is truly connected to The Rock of Salvation. One should merely be amused at the rantings of one who is also likely to fall by the wayside. Peace.

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14. 

    Michael

    May 11, 2006 at 1:03 pm

    Getalife, I appreciate your comment and I do not find it insulting. I’m not familiar with “The Good News Bible,” but their website lists it as a “dynamic equivalence” version. Accuracy can be difficult to achieve, depending on how one interprets the language. I prefer the NIV, but use blueletterbible.com to look at the original Hebrew and Aramaic. That doesn’t usually help me much, but I do it anyway. I don’t think I own a King James version.

    I applaud your earnestness in seeking God’s will. While The Da Vinci Code cannot shake you rock, can you see that if one’s faith is weak or new or untested that any obstacle can affect our brother or sister in a negative way? That is why I oppose this piece of work – it works against the effort of the evangelical Christian to spread the good news.

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15. 

    Sean

    May 11, 2006 at 1:03 pm

    Oh my.

    From (NewAdvent.org:)

    Well I do agree that the key lies in the reading of the early church’s history. The council of Nicea took place in Nicea, 20 May 325 and probably for months afterwards. The Emperor Constantine as well as a great collection of bishops were present (250-300?). However the purpose was to heal the rift in the Church caused by Arius who had been preaching heresy, towit: (in an abbreviated fashion) that Christ was a lesser created God, originated by the supreme Being and standing between the Creator and Creation. (Similar views about Christ are in the Koran)

    The Gnostics were not directly addressed at Nicea (as far as I know) but rather sewed the seeds of their self-authorized interpretations of Christianity as far back as 60 AD. They claimed to hold special knowledge about the interpretations of the faith – (perhaps individual revalation). In this climate of self-interpretation of the mysteries related in the Gospels, Arianism flourished and posed a real threat to the Church, and to the Empire in the early 300’s. Constantine (perhaps in council with Pope Sylvester) arranged for Arius and many bishops to convene and settle the controversy of these multiple interpretations centering on the triune Godhead. This was the most important surviving Canon established at Nicea, and gave us the Nicene Creed which compactly states the traditions of belief held and preached by the early Apostles. “We believe in One God, The Father, The Almighty,…….”. So much in alignment was this Creed with the thinking of the 300 or so bishops present, that all but five acceded to it when it was presented, and three more came to agree with the majority before the council ended. The remaining two, along with Arius were excommunicated. Constantine held a great party to celebrate the agreement, and then told everybody to play nice in the sand box and have a nice trip home.

    In reality, the problems then were those that we have now. The rationalists from the pagan belief systems and Aristotelian schools tried to reconcile the mysteries of the Christian faith into logical constructs. I understand that the Church teaches not all in life can be contained in rational thought, and that there are things both “seen and unseen”. To fit Christ into a rationalist’s box is the height of hubris, and destined to failure or at least heresy. There are simply some things in life (and usually the more important ones) that are not subject to rational definition. That God is both and all God, Christ and the Holy Spirit cannot be explained in detail, but can be accepted as a mystery that is beyond human comprehension – as Arius was told.

    Interestingly, Constantine was under the influence of certain Arian religious teachers to begin with, but was solidly in the mainstream field at, or at least by the end of the council.

    Check it out.

    And take off that rationlist hat from time to time so you can smell the roses.

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16. 

    Sean

    May 11, 2006 at 1:05 pm

    Darn, now I’m several posts behind that painstakingly researched and well thought out reply.

    …..nevermind.

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17. 

    Get@life.com

    May 11, 2006 at 1:58 pm

    Sean – Thanks for the back-up. I used the Nicene Creed (the nearest Christians have to an “oath of office”) as an example of how the temporal has influenced our interpretation of the spiritual. Sure, the findings were nearly unanimous, but each of the participants had a temporal motivation (political stability), as well as an ecumenical calling, to do that work. As we probe further into the origins of The Church, the veil gets mistier and mistier. We have records, but the fact that we do not know who or under what circumstances those record came into being really does not matter to me. Because The Word is clear and you can hear it ringing from the mountains and in the crash of the seas: Be Good.

    The irony of our Faith is that the linkage between the spiritual and the temporal is us. We do not Do Good as a way to earn salvation. You cannot earn your way into heaven. Instead, the mystery of faith is clear: we have to accept Him into our hearts to be saved. That means we must Be Good. And when we Are Good, then good works follow. We do not get angry at those who believe differently. They have made Their Choice, and frequently, they are pretty entertaining, at that.

    Remember, anger is a form of violence held in check. We get angry, but we lose Him in the process. Prayer helps us reconnect, not for guidance, but as a way to re-center ourselves on what this is all about.

    So, I think it is pretty clear that I am not a person who believes in the literal Truth of the Bible. Not because I doubt the Word of God or because I do not know what it is, but because I do not yet know what The Bible is. For me an my journey, whether Jesus did or did not marry Mary Magdalene takes nothing away from either. I enjoy the temporal supposition about what that might mean for our temporal lives, but it has little, if any bearing, on my spiritual life. When the lights come up, I will still understand the meaning of the story of The Good Samaritan. I will still know the horror and the undeniable strength of character of The Passion. I will still walk amongst my fellow Man. Smiling. Happy to enjoy the sunshine, be grateful for the rain, and hope that little musings like these can help someone, anywhere, find a bit more strength. To Be Good.

    Peace.

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18. 

    Keith Prossick

    May 11, 2006 at 2:03 pm

    Personally, I feel that The Da Vinci Code (along with Angels & Demons) is good for both Christianity, as well as a renewed interest in the Renaissance. What people are failing to see is that this book has sparked a voracious interest in learning the facts, and digging deep and finding out for ourselves what we trully do know, and not just rely on what we were told as children. Ask yourselves, have you seen more books written about a book, and debates heated up to discuss the controversy in a book in recent times. I think it is wonderful, and downright entertaining from both perspectives.

    If Christians are angered by this book, they shouldn’t be. Why? Do you honestly think that 2,000 years of forcefully removing any literature that did not agree with the authorites of the Church was not bound to create questions to future generations as to what was actually burned? It is well known now that Constantine had the leaders of the Church that be remove specific Gospels from the Bible, and St Patrick was known for burning un-Christian works. Through the ages, time and time again, the Church would go on a burning rampage purging society of so called anti-Christian thoughts. Atleast the Moors of Spain had enough faith in their religion to not go about burning books, but when the Cristians came in and pushed them out, they quickly confiscated all books so as to protect their flock from heathen writings.

    In the early days of Christianity, there where many variations on the teachings of Jesus, nowadays clasified into two categories, Gnostic and Orthodox. And yes, they competed with eachother, with each side accusing the other of blasphemy. Out of this dust, around 300-450 AD, the 4 Gospels were put down on papyrus, or at least, that is as far back as we can trace full manuscipts back to, mainly speaking of the Vatican Manuscript (4th Century), the Sinaitic Manuscript, and the Alexandrian Manuscript. This of course is only the New Testement I am referring to. There are other ‘pieces’ that have been found that are older, but these are the oldest complete manuscripts.

    The faith one puts in the Bible has transgressed a course through 300-400 years of verbal transmittal, the organization of a power hungry Emporer, namely Constantine, a Church that through the Dark Ages has enough dirty tales in regards to corruption, greed, envy, and jealousy to create a teen soap opera on Fox. The Reformation, the King James Version, yadda yadda yadda. Of course there is going to be ambiguity as to what authority is placed upon The Bible.

    Is this all new, based on this book. No. This debate has been going on for hundreds of years, and will most likely go on for a few more hundred years. Why? Cause we will never know the truth. There has been shady doings on both sides of the issue, and by no means is the Christian Church’s hands clean of dirt. But that’s OK. We must remember we are human, and prone to error on both sides.

    I viewed this book as actually increasing my admiration for Jesus. Not in opposition of it, but in a connection that allowed me to actually relate to him as a brother. Am I ignorant, or deluded by facts, no, all facts on this issue are subjective. It is my faith in God that helps me wade through ALL torrents of ignorance, on both sides of the issue.

    To call this book a work of Satan is childish, period, and defeats the purpose. To say I am of Satan simply because I disagree with your faith is also childish. If you continually look at everything opposed to you as being derived from Satan, how will you ever grow spiritually?

    Just some thoughts.

    Oh, and yes, this is my real name, and my real email.

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19. 

    Sean

    May 11, 2006 at 4:10 pm

    Request:

    “It is well known now that Constantine had the leaders of the Church that be remove specific Gospels from the Bible”

    Point me to it dude.

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20. 

    Keith Prossick

    May 11, 2006 at 4:39 pm

    Good Job. I apologize, in my fervor I was pushing subjective speculation as objective fact, and I thank you for pointing out to me my error. However, it seems to me that much to do about the Council of Nicea is nothing but speculative. And everything that the Council was deciding upon was their own personal speculation as to what was considered heresy and what was not. Remember, most of what you hear is the winners version of what occurred there. I’m not saying I’m one way or the other, but merely pointing out the holes in the arguments.

    However, pointing out that Constantine had arranged the council supposedly with Pope Sylvester, I can assure you that much debate took place, and considering that Constantine held the “guns”, I’m sure that he was pretty persuasive on his part. Especially being that his conversion to Christianity was based upon a dream of him leading by “The Cross”, this would lend me to believe that he was fanatical about his conversion, and proceeded forth with his own fervor to guide the religion based on his interpretation of his “Vision”. Equally fanatical was his mother returning from the Holy Land with supposed remnants of the true cross. Sounds pretty Psycho-like to me. Beware of his shower.

    One thing of note is that Constantine made Christianity a valid Religion in Rome. Up until then, it was condemened, and admitted Christians were put to death for no reason other than being Christian. Yet, it is funny that when Christianity finally found themselves as “THE” religion of what would become the Holy Roman Empire, rather then rejoice, they wasted no time in turning the table in condemning those that condemned them, and began executing not only non-Christians, but also Gnostics, or anyone else labeled as a heretic based upon their own speculation.

    Again, I do apologize for my own personal speculation, but it’s hard now a days to not be. I mean, I can show you proof, but then you will want to know where they got their information from, and you will re-but with your own proof, and I will wonder where their facts are based. And both of us thinking the other is biased, and this will continue ad infinitum until maybe, just maybe, we all find the core of what really happened. So we search and debate, and we grow enlightened.

    And this is why I think that in the end, this book will be beneficial to Christianity, as well as non-Christian beleiefs.

    But I do have one paradox though. If TDVC is considered a danger to society, how is The Left Behind Series not dangerous. To me, I find that series even more dangerous to speculatitive belief structures then TDVC.

    Just Curious.

    Appriciate the heads up though.

    Keith

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21. 

    Nobody

    May 12, 2006 at 9:42 am

    *laughs*

    You guys are trying to tell me that Satan wrote the DaVinci Code?

    “If Satan wanted to seed doubt among Christians, being blatantly evil doesn’t work. That chases too many people into the arms of Jesus.

    Now, being subtle, mixing fact and fiction and claiming to be fact when convenient and fiction when criticized, why, that’s the sort of deviousnous we could expect from Satan. He must be chortling with joy that he has some Christians defending blasphemy.”

    *laughs some more*

    I think somebody needs some anti-psychotic drugs. You’ve completely lost touch with reality, dude. Dan Brown wrote it, not Satan.

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22. 

    Michael

    May 15, 2006 at 11:00 am

    Kieth, I appreciate the opposing viewpoint, but the Zogby poll listed above shows that the book generates doubt, not reassurance. Told as fiction, the author hides behind the “fiction” moniker when it’s convenient, and hints at fact at attacks on the Catholic church. Your contention that a “burning rampage” at the hands of Christians indicates at least a partial belief in a Catholic conspiracy. I’m not buying it, I don’t think any conspiracy to hid the truth could ever be that effective as the sheer number of people involved could never keep such a secret.

    For the record, I never said you personally were from Satan. As long as you’re throwing the “childish” label around, take a helping for yourself. I didn’t even claim that the The Da Vinci Code was from Satan, for how could I, a mere mortal, know that? All I claimed was that if Satan wanted to ferment doubt in the bible, he’d have used a technique like this.

    I don’t understand your critique of the Left Behind series, it doesn’t mix fact and fiction to taint either historical figures of the deity of Christ. It’s a fictional account of the future as shown in Revelelations, and the author has taken great pains not to engage in heresy.

    And Nobody, you need to reread what I wrote before you start prescribing drugs for others. You’ve misread it.

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23. 

    Keith Prossick

    May 16, 2006 at 11:19 pm

    Sorry if you thoughts I was directing at you Michael, I was just interpreting all the Satan references in the other posts. As for the burning rampage, I know how the mob mentality works, and I’m sure you have heard the stories as much as I have. All the many things the Catholic Church did in the name of God, and Jesus. It even took them 500 years to forgive the world what they did to Galileo.

    And the Church easily could have covered stuff up, and hide the evidence by burning it. I mean, we’re talking about humans here, I know how the Ego works. Lucifer’s little back door to our souls.

    If Lucifer wanted to cast doubt, he could have easily infiltrated the Church. And wouldn’t that be what he would strive for, to create decay at the roots, plus, he would most likely enjoy the irony.

    As for the Left Behind books. The same type of people that would honestly believe to heart that the Da Vinci Code is true, are the same as those that have read the Left Behind Books and now have that as the vision in their mind as to how the Apocolypse will happen. Plus, with all the follow up books, like “Are We Living in the End Times?”, create a sense of fear and paranoia into the population. With the Da Vinci Code, all you are getting is questions, not the end of the world. Do you see what I am saying? And just because Left Behind is futuristic, doesn’t mean it is safe. Look at the Scientologists.

    Personally, I want to know which Gospels were left out of the Bible. I want to know why. I want to see for myself, and not rely on someone telling me this or that. It’s important to read both side of the story, not just one.

    If you think The Da Vinci Code was extreme, it’s just society balancing an already unbalanced look at history.

    People want God back in their lives, but they left in the first place because they feel they were lied to. They are hungry for God, but Christianity doesn’t have the answers they are looking for. Why is it so bad to seek another way?

    Keith

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24. 

    Michael

    May 17, 2006 at 8:32 am

    Keith, if you’re referring to the Crusades, putting the actions of the Catholic Church as a juxtaposition against Muslim activities at the time will give you a more even perspective. I’ll acknowledge the weakness of the Church – it is, after all, made of imperfect humans – but such a weak church therefore couldn’t have pulled off the conspiracy you suggest without somebody else writing of it.

    I’ll agree to disagree on Left Behind. I see your point and disagree with your conclusion. Even if one believed the fiction of Left Behind, it would serve to increase their faith, not decrease it.

    I disagree that “Christianity doesn’t have the answers.” I think people who come to that conclusion haven’t put their faith in Jesus Christ. God doesn’t do our bidding, and when we fail to get Him to perform a magic trick for us, we think God isn’t the answer. I just started a series on Habakkuk from the bible that discusses this very thing.

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25. 

    Keith Prossick

    May 17, 2006 at 3:16 pm

    As for the Crusades, maybe the first 3-4 were noble, but the following 10 or so were based on greed. And what about the Crusade that was meant to fight Islam, but on their way, the Pope made them go to Constantinople and sack the city because the leader there was is in opposition to the Pope. In the beginning the Crusades were necessary, but like in all things, they over extended what was necessary, and in turn, expanded the resentment between the two sides.

    But, alas, that is not what I was referring to, but mainly the Church’s destruction of Moorish Spain, which was of a more nobler calibre of Islam then there eastern brothers. At least, they allowed people of multiple religions to live in harmony with eachother. When the Christians came in, they started making every one convert to Christianity, and this led to the Spanish Inquisition. They also ransacked all the libraries, and took all the works back to Rome, and anything thought as heretic was burned. That we do know.

    As for the Left Behind series, my issue is that it only increases their faith in a coming Apocolypse, and the follow up books, relating the current times as being the End Times. This is dangerous propaganda. More dangerous then The Da Vinci Code, which only asks questions. It has the threat of leading to a self fulfilling prophecy. Like in the Matrix, when the Oracle says to Neo, “Don’t worry about the vase”, and he turns, and hits the vase knocking it over. Then she says, would that have happened if I didn’t tell you about the vase.

    Quote: “I disagree that “Christianity doesn’t have the answers.” I think people who come to that conclusion haven’t put their faith in Jesus Christ.”

    I disagree with your disagreement, otherwise I would be Christian. 🙂

    I have faith in Jesus, just not in Christianity. But that is my choice that I base on how I see the Universe, from all perspectives. However, I’m not saying that it doesn’t have the answers for others, just not everybody.

    I also think that because of your statement above, it creates an attitude that you have all the answers so you don’t need to listen to any other possible spiritual ideas put forth in other religions that do have merit. This is my issue, because rather then talk to me about what my views are, I am told it is just because I don’t have faith in Jesus Christ. Or, I am told, that I just don’t get it, or that I don’t see it. I’m not accusing, just illustrating some of the things I have experienced since I left the religion. This statement doesn’t make me want to come back, but rather validates why I left. Just a hint. 🙂

    God cannot interefere with Free Will, directly. I don’t want him to do things for me, or put my responsibility into something other then myself. If I don’t figure this stuff out for myself, how will I ever understand it. I had my first spiritual experience when I was 3, where I saw my guardian angel in shining blue light, I have been spiritual awakened since then. God is the answer. I just have an issue with Christianity thinking they have a monopoly on him. 🙂

    If you want to see a miracle, I can give you one. Convert me to Christianity, and there you go.

    Have you ever asked the question of yourself, “If I were God, how would I have created the Universe?” Just curious. It’s a tough question, especially when you take into account Free Will, Science, the existence of all World Religions, war, suffering, love, joy, art, politics, the dualistic nature of existence, energy, matter, Quantum Mechanics, Mathematics, the Human Brain, Black Holes, Evolution, History, Astronomy, Astrology, Tarot, The Bible, Quran, Qabballah, I CHing, Tao te Ching, Bhagavd Gita, The Zohar, Gravity. You see a tapestry with the face of God on it.

    Hope I’m not anoying you, I am rather enjoying this, in a good way of course. I respect your thoughts. 🙂

    I’d be interested in your series, is there a link, and/or discussion. DOn’t know if you’d want me in the class. I might be a pain in the ass. 🙂

    SHine On

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26. 

    Michael

    May 17, 2006 at 8:38 pm

    “I have faith in Jesus, just not in Christianity.” Then do you believe what Jesus says?

    I too have faith in Jesus. If by “faith in Christianity” you mean institutions of man, I don’t have faith in that. I do, however, respect that Jesus is the head of the church and we are it’s members. I think any institution of man is fallible, just like man himself.

    I don’t claim to have all the answers. I just claim to know who does. 😛

    “Convert you to Christianity” if I want to see a miracle? I think that’s a choice between you and the Holy Spirit. My job isn’t to convert anybody, just be an example and share my faith.

    I’m not annoyed. I appreciate that you’re seeking, and I, too, enjoy it. I’m not going to second guess God, though. I stand in awe at His creation and sometimes wonder what man is doing to it.

    When I said I was starting a series, I didn’t mean it was a creation of mine. My pastor (www.second.org) will spend 4 weeks teaching from Habakkuk. Topics are:

    May 13 & 14 GOD ON TRIAL: Does God Listen? (This one is complete and focused on Habakkuk 1:2-11.)
    May 20 & 21 GOD ON TRIAL: Is God Fair?
    May 27 & 28 GOD ON TRIAL: Does God Overlook Sin?
    June 3 & 4 GOD ON TRIAL: When the Bottom Falls Out…YET?

    I think CD’s of the sermon are available for $5. I wish they’d make them podcasts.

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27. 

    Keith Prossick

    May 17, 2006 at 10:37 pm

    Let’s just say that when I read Jesus’s words, I hear something different then what the Church says. It also has taken me studying all those things I mentioned above to understand him. However, accepting him as my saviour is a different story. I honestly cannot see that as being part of God’s plan. I see God as a tree that we are all evolving towards, spiritually, physically, and mentally. Right now, humanity is under ground on different roots, making our way towards the surface, or Face of the Waters. I see Jesus as the head of one of the major roots, I see The Buddha as another, I see Mohamed (yes, in warped ways, but there is still some light at the bottom of that pail) another root. I see the Wiccan Goddess, as another, Darwin on another. We are all heading towards the same goal, just in different ways. It is not our differences that define us, but our similarities. (Again, this is metaphor)

    The converting to CHristianity thing was a joke, though I think you know that, I just want to make sure. 🙂

    You may not second guess God, but I will. If he is the God we think him to be, I know he won’t mind. Of all the apostles, it is Thomas I have the most respect for. Why? Cause he had the courage to touch the wound, to make sure beyond belief that Lucifer was pulling the wool over his eyes. Yes, Christians seem to downgrade him.

    I stand in awe every day of His creation, but I am the Da Vinci type, I want to know how it works. What’s the science behind the magic. How does the soul connect to the body, what is the mechanism, I have narrowed it down to the Pineal Gland. Einstein himself proved that energy and matter are interchangeable through light. SOunds like a mechanism to me.

    What is Habakkuk?

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28. 

    Michael

    May 18, 2006 at 9:43 am

    “Let’s just say that when I read Jesus’s words, I hear something different then what the Church says.” Sometimes I do, too. Sean would be more knowledgeable on this part since he’s Catholic, but the Church spends centuries clarifying doctrine through traditions, so I take their position seriously. But I heard the term sola scriptura for the first time this past year and I don’t put anything between me and my saviour.

    I recognized the joke, but there was a clarification I wanted to make. 🙂

    Perhaps your church experience is different than mine. I don’t downgrade Thomas. Every word in the bible means something. There are many things to be learned about Christ and faith from Thomas.

    God created science, nothing wrong with being in awe of that. Keep looking. 🙂

    Habakkuk is a lesser-known book of the Old Testament. I mentioned Habakkuk 1:1-11 above that we studied last Sunday; the basic thrust of the study was that just because the Lord doesn’t answer the way we want Him to, doesn’t mean He isn’t in control and working out His plan. “For I am going to do something in your days that you would not believe, even if you were told.”

    Habakkuk 1
    1 The oracle that Habakkuk the prophet received.

    Habakkuk’s Complaint
    2 How long, O LORD, must I call for help,
    but you do not listen?
    Or cry out to you, “Violence!”
    but you do not save?
    3 Why do you make me look at injustice?
    Why do you tolerate wrong?
    Destruction and violence are before me;
    there is strife, and conflict abounds.

    4 Therefore the law is paralyzed,
    and justice never prevails.
    The wicked hem in the righteous,
    so that justice is perverted.

    The Lord’s Answer
    5 “Look at the nations and watch—
    and be utterly amazed.
    For I am going to do something in your days
    that you would not believe,
    even if you were told.
    6 I am raising up the Babylonians,
    that ruthless and impetuous people,
    who sweep across the whole earth
    to seize dwelling places not their own.

    7 They are a feared and dreaded people;
    they are a law to themselves
    and promote their own honor.

    8 Their horses are swifter than leopards,
    fiercer than wolves at dusk.
    Their cavalry gallops headlong;
    their horsemen come from afar.
    They fly like a vulture swooping to devour;

    9 they all come bent on violence.
    Their hordes advance like a desert wind
    and gather prisoners like sand.

    10 They deride kings
    and scoff at rulers.
    They laugh at all fortified cities;
    they build earthen ramps and capture them.

    11 Then they sweep past like the wind and go on—
    guilty men, whose own strength is their god.”

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