Chasing the Wind

15 responses to “Boycotting "Winter Holidays"”

1. 

   Courtney

   December 1, 2004 at 2:35 pm

   “Cold generic people can celebrate the cold generic Winter Holiday”

   Care to elaborate on this one? 🙄

   BTW, I’m also celebrating Christmas with love, joy, and celebration. I love my family, and I experience joy in passing on the celebration of the season. Doesn’t sound too cold to me.

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2. 

   Sean

   December 1, 2004 at 3:25 pm

   Pssst. Courtney…..dont….poke….the bear.

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3. 

   Michael

   December 1, 2004 at 7:42 pm

   Courtney, you’re not one of the cold, generic people if you’re celebrating Christmas. 😛

   And Sean – I prefer to think of myself as “rabid mongoose.”

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4. 

   Jo

   December 2, 2004 at 6:44 am

   Don’t you think it’s a little silly to complain, considering Christmas wasn’t even a Christian holiday originally? What you consider “the odd Christmas traditions” are really the ORIGINAL holiday traditions commandeered by the church.

   As for anyone trying to remove Christ from your Christmas, don’t be absurd. No one is preventing you from celebrating in any old way you wish. They’re just telling you they aren’t willing to subsidize your celebration with tax dollars. That’s fair.

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5. 

   Michael

   December 2, 2004 at 8:11 am

   If I thought it was silly to complain, I wouldn’t complain. 🙂

   Christmas has been about the birth of Christ my entire life. Only in the last few years have I seen an effort to wipe the word “Christmas” from malls, corporations, city displays, etc. Most of those aren’t tax dollar supported. It’s all been replaced with Happy Hollidays.

   And government uses my tax dollars for all sorts of things I don’t support – Houston is spending millions of dollars on a new minority museum. I’m not a minority, yet my tax dollars go for that. Why can’t some tax dollars go for things that the Christian majority support?

   And when they prevent school children from singing Christmas songs, hardly any tax dollars are at play. Yet the children and parents that would enjoy such singing are prevented from enjoying it after they’re sued by the ACLU and reimbursed by tax dollars.

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6. 

   Jo

   December 2, 2004 at 8:42 am

   I wasn’t talking about your whole life. I was talking about the life of this particular holiday, which predates Christianity by quite a bit.

   Christ made a distinction between church and state – why are you insisting there shouldn’t be one? What difference does it make to you if the rest of the world celebrates Christmas the way you want them to? Does is make you less Christian? Would it make them any more Christian to pretend they’re celebrating something they aren’t?

   Personally, I’m thankful for the trend – I find it far more offensive for businesses to hawk product in the name of Christ than I do for them to stick to the secular aspects of the holiday. Since we stole the holiday to begin with I don’t see why we should get annoyed when someone else uses it for their own purposes. We set the example, so we can’t complain when someone follows it.

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7. 

   Michael

   December 2, 2004 at 8:57 am

   I wasn’t talking about your whole life.

   I was. Pay attention. 😛

   Christ made a distinction between church and state – why are you insisting there shouldn’t be one?

   I am not insisting that. I am indignant that “Christmas” has been replaced by “Winter Holidays,” a non-existent and meaningless holiday.

   Personally, I’m thankful for the trend – I find it far more offensive for businesses to hawk product in the name of Christ than I do for them to stick to the secular aspects of the holiday.

   You make a good point there, and I’ll agree with you. Better that they should promote Christmas without the commercialism, if it were possible. But if it were not for Christmas and the associated gift-giving, Winter Holidays would disappear since there would be no commercial or religious significance.

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8. 

   A.M.M.

   December 2, 2004 at 12:46 pm

   “As for anyone trying to remove Christ from your Christmas, don’t be absurd. No one is preventing you from celebrating in any old way you wish. They’re just telling you they aren’t willing to subsidize your celebration with tax dollars. That’s fair.”

   Actually, there’s quite a few people/groups that don’t want us to pray in his name anywhere. The ACLU comes rapidly to mind, and there are also a hefty amount of others that would do the same, some of them are governmental.

   What would be “fair” is if they treat all religions the same before the law. I would much rather see either all religions face this persecution (then we could have some real fun complaining), or more preferably have Christianity enjoy the same freedom of speech as the other religions.

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9. 

   Jo

   December 2, 2004 at 10:47 pm

   “Actually, there’s quite a few people/groups that don’t want us to pray in his name anywhere. The ACLU comes rapidly to mind, and there are also a hefty amount of others that would do the same, some of them are governmental.”

   Really? They want to come to your house and make sure you don’t say Grace before meals? If they see you bowing your head on the street corner they want you arrested? They want to shut down your churches?

   The fact is, you do have the right to pray any old time and place you wish, as long as you aren’t doing it as an official representative of the government. Students can pray in school; a teacher can’t lead the prayer. It’s not a difficult distinction, but there are those people who will try to blow it out of proportion.

   And where, exactly, is this favoritism to non-Christian religions? Last I checked, a teacher can’t read from the Tora or ask the kids to face mecca five times a day, either.

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10. 

    A.M.M.

    December 3, 2004 at 12:59 am

    Wow, Jo. No offense, but it sounds like I hit a button or two with you.

    “Really? They want to come to your house and make sure you don’t say Grace before meals? If they see you bowing your head on the street corner they want you arrested? They want to shut down your churches?”

    Yes. In all honesty, I wouldn’t put that past certain (not all) people. The only reason why they don’t is because taking it that far is illegal. Instead, they ban us from showing our faith in a lot of places and ways.

    You mentioned the schools, so let’s start there. You specifically mentioned a “teacher can’t read from the Tora or ask the kids to face mecca five times a day”. Maybe not, but keep in mind that in that example that the teacher is asking for it. If a student requested to pray to Mecca, in most schools/cases they would be allowed to. I can honestly say that the inverse is true for Christians. After all, when was the last time you’ve heard of any religion (other than Christianity) being squelched in a public arena?

    My only point in all of this is that we’re not being treated equally. I don’t care if we’re not allowed to pray in a public arena. (Ok, maybe I do care, but I won’t complain about purely that fact.) I only want to be treated equally before the law, and in the interest of being topical, I’m going to point at the Parade of Lights and ask why we can’t march in it.

    Keep in mind that it wouldn’t take long to drag up a lot of stories from years past about Christians being persecuted while other religions are not. Give me the word and I’ll go fetch them. 🙂

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11. 

    Tony

    December 3, 2004 at 5:57 am

    Yes. In all honesty, I wouldn’t put that past certain (not all) people. The only reason why they don’t is because taking it that far is illegal. Instead, they ban us from showing our faith in a lot of places and ways.

    I can envision a time when they will say that praying or talking about God at home is indoctrinating children. Remember, leftists are very tricky. Just look how they’ve twisted Thomas Jeffersons’ “Church and State” phrase into the monster that it is today. Just remember, with twisted interpretations and activist judges, there’s nothing a liberal can’t do.

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12. 

    Jo

    December 3, 2004 at 7:55 am

    “After all, when was the last time you’ve heard of any religion (other than Christianity) being squelched in a public arena?”

    When was the last time you’ve heard of any religion other than Christianity trying to practice in a public arena? And trying to get the government to either lead the way or pay for it?

    That’s the difference, and yes this is a button with me, because it’s the arrogance of Christians who just can’t see what they’re doing that makes the rest of us look bad. Sorry, but the “gosh, isn’t everyone a Christian?” mentality really, really annoys me. Or even worse, “Well, MOST people are Christians so we should be able to bully everyone else into sitting through our prayers” mindset.

    “If a student requested to pray to Mecca, in most schools/cases they would be allowed to. I can honestly say that the inverse is true for Christians.”

    No, you can’t. If the student requested to pray to Mecca over the loudspeaker before the football game, they’d be told no. No double standard there. I’m curious, though – since when does a Christian need permission to pray?

    “I only want to be treated equally before the law, and in the interest of being topical, I’m going to point at the Parade of Lights and ask why we can’t march in it.”

    What other religious group is marching in it? Is there a menorah brigade? And is anyone preventing a Christian group from getting a permit and holding a parade? The fact is, just because a group is not allowed in THIS parade does not mean they don’t have the right to have one.

    Just seems to me that whinging about how it’s not fair that rest of the world doesn’t want to have to sit through religious rituals they aren’t interested in, or that the government doesn’t want to give the impression that they are playing favorites doesn’t exactly set the best example of living in Christ. You can do it all you want, of course. Just wondering what you’re trying to accomplish. If it’s demonstrating Christ’s love, though, you might try switching tactics.

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13. 

    Michael

    December 3, 2004 at 8:17 am

    One is not exactly able to show Christ’s love if they’re not allowed to participate. What mindset would allow gay and lesbian American Indian shamans to march in the parade (which was still called a Christmas parade until recently) but not a local Christian church? Is it only acceptable to offend the Christian taxpayers on what the money is spent on?

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14. 

    Tony

    December 3, 2004 at 8:46 am

    I think we Christians need to remember what the Lord said:

    John 15:18-21 “When the world hates you, remember it hated me before it hated you. 19 The world would love you if you belonged to it, but you don’t. I chose you to come out of the world, and so it hates you. 20 Do you remember what I told you? ‘A servant is not greater than the master.’ Since they persecuted me, naturally they will persecute you. And if they had listened to me, they would listen to you! 21 The people of the world will hate you because you belong to me, for they don’t know God who sent me.

    This pretty much sums up what is happening in this nation today.

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15. 

    A.M.M.

    December 3, 2004 at 1:46 pm

    I’m sorry Jo, but your counter-points in the last post seem to be more spite than fact.

    “When was the last time you’ve heard of any religion other than Christianity trying to practice in a public arena?” and “What other religious group is marching in it? Is there a menorah brigade?”
    -Take a look on this site and some of the links for the Lump of Coal campaign and the Parade of Lights. It doesn’t take long to see that Christians aren’t the only people who show their faith. Your question was for the “last time”, so this is the most recent I can find.

    “No, you can’t. If the student requested to pray to Mecca over the loudspeaker before the football game, they’d be told no. No double standard there.”
    -On that one point? You’re right. However, I was referring to in-class and during-class. I’m speaking from personal experience here. I was in highschool less than a year ago, and I can tell you that Muslims (and a couple other religions) were allowed to pray in-class and during-class, but the only Christian group had to fight with the principal to pray after school had let out.

    “…because it’s the arrogance of Christians who just can’t see what they’re doing that makes the rest of us look bad.”
    -Are you referring to prayer? How about attempting to convert others to our faith? Maybe actively living what we believe in? These are part of our faith, and we’re supposed to do them.

    Oh, and the “‘gosh, isn’t everyone a Christian?’ mentality” and the “‘Well, MOST people are Christians so we should be able to bully everyone else into sitting through our prayers’ mindset” don’t apply to me. I consider true Christians, which are the people who live what they believe and not merely Christian in name only, to be a vast minority. I still want to show my faith, and I still want to pray.

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