Ave Maria

It’s good to see somebody putting their money and their life where their faith is. I learned something about Dominos Pizza today: The founder, Tom Monaghan, is a faithful Catholic. He’s used his fortune to found the town of Ave Maria, Florida. What makes Ave Maria so special is that it’s designed for Christians. Tom’s purpose is to get as many people to Heaven as he can. Ave Maria has Catholic schools and Catholic university and 11,000 homes. You can get complete information from the Ave Maria homepage.
Ave Maria

Some aren’t happy about it. The ACLU is already eyeballing the town, according to the ABC story, and AthiestParents.org (who knew there was such an organization?) has terrible things to say about it.

It’s designed to be utopia on earth for the fervent Catholics. God bless Tom Monoghan for his vision.

21 thoughts on “Ave Maria

  1. $250m venues to be ‘competition ready’ two years before 2010 … Meeks Message From Capitol Hill Love, not politics defines St. Luke’s new minister Eckankar, Religion of the Light and Sound of God,…. ABC News: City of God: Catholic Town Opens in Fla.Ave MariaLinks To Peruse and Misuse Growth/Development, Town of Ave … Liberal International: Flexibility of no help on issue of sovereignty Jeffco Action Center has new location What’s On: Rest of The Week


  2. $250m venues to be ‘competition ready’ two years before 2010 … Meeks Message From Capitol Hill Love, not politics defines St. Luke’s new minister Eckankar, Religion of the Light and Sound of God,…. ABC News: City of God: Catholic Town Opens in Fla.Ave MariaLinks To Peruse and Misuse Growth/Development, Town of Ave … Liberal International: Flexibility of no help on issue of sovereignty Jeffco Action Center has new location What’s On: Rest of The Week


  3. Hmmmmm…..Caesar and God’s interest Clash and a City furthers a religion. The beauty of the Vatican City as opposed to this anti-Gregorian monstrocity is that it is a clergy only citizenry and UnNation with the occasion of refuge. Not perminent laymen residence. Talk about money lending at the temple, this is started as theocratic municipality by investment bankers and economists.

    Sin made this city, it’s a “Catholic” Vedic City.

    [links removed by Michael]


  4. Golok, what are you babbling about? People that live there do so voluntarily; it’s a private democratic community, not a theocracy. Do you deny people the choice of living away from this secular society?

    I removed whatever those links were, they didn’t look like they led anywhere relevant.


  5. So your okay with violating the 1st Article of the Bill of Rights in the Constitution? In regards to furthering a religion? Or St./Frmr. Pope Gregory’s opposition to mixing Church and State or Christ saying give onto Caesar what is Caesar’s and God what is God’s? This says you can pick a dedication to faith or a dedication to state but neither at the same time. You don’t pray in Government and Establish Official State Religion and you do not Canvas Churches for votes or hold a legislative vote there.
    The links led to quotes and contact.
    Such as founding fathers.
    Civilization isn’t secular, not to mention the Anglican (UMC) President who follows a state faith in the English Government and beheading Amber Lynn and of course St. Moore.
    Going to church is a an escape from the secular. I am fine with that. It’s a shame Holy Rosary Cathedral turned their head when I was brutalized in the Cathedral by police, seeking out this sort of escape and sanctuary. Think about that when you think your safe from the “secular city” and some of them where Michael on their shoulders.
    I don’t know if Adam Exner got the message about this, but if he did both him and Roussin failed a Catholic and it can’t be doubtful it would happen in a city. Cults have laymen religiocity related cities, like Salt Lake and Vedic City (TM).
    Did you read the point of view thuroughly or have no reasonable rebuttle? It’s not hard to get what I am saying. It is a city, it has a city hall, it has a religious government and it furthers a faith. Naples still has it in it’s back yard. Now Vedic City is trying to expand with eminent domain. will Ave Maria do so?
    The world isn’t secular, the state is by law, the law of laws, the United States Constitution before the 10th Article of the Bill of Rights (inclusive).
    Hmmmm, funny that Baptist Minister who is on the government branch via the bar who runs people for the separation of church and state didn’t get on this, that surprizes me. He and hypocrisy(2nd def) aside the United States does have a recognition of a religiously generic God in the constitution of the US, something none can see but humbles us all as unknowing of the ultimate. Well that’s the idea.
    Why drag Catholocism into the cult level of compounds and utopia that is not heaven? What Catholic who is not dead and judged have a right to heaven? It’s God’s Choice not Collier’s or Monoghan’s. What is wrong with not being prostletized on the street? What is wrong with not having a state religion? What is wrong with not praying in the closet, not preaching on the street corner, not doing as the hypocrits do? Your a haven for the Atheist revolution not Catholics.


    Gölök Zoltán Leenderdt Franco Buday
    “The village atheist has the right to be heard; he has no right to be heeded. While he has a right not to have his own children indoctrinated in what he believes are false and foolish teachings, he has no right to dictate what other children may be taught.” — Patrick J. Buchanan
    “Atheists are just Fundamentalist Agonstics” — Gölök Zoltán Leenderdt Franco Buday; http://en.wiquo.myegopedia.com/


  6. Gölök, quite welcome, appreciate your viewpoint. Your statement that this is “violating the 1st Article of the Bill of Rights in the Constitution” shows a tenuous grasp on that article. Private individuals have every right to establish whatever assembly they wish, and to the extent available to them as a local jurisdiction, self-govern. Should the US government try to stop them, *that* would be a violation of the 1st Amendment.


  7. Thanks for using the proper spelling of my name this time Michael, This is not an assembly this is a political boundarie and a faith is establishing not individuals, peaceful assembly. To establish a Government in the united states furthering a religion is not peaceful or lawful. This isn’t going to Church. It isn’t building a Church. I expect this from Old or Liberal Catholice, the Order of Utrect, Jesuits at most; given the Father of the House in the Nixon era. which somehow slides when your a Democrat.
    But I do not expect this from a theologically authentic Catholic, what is Ave Maria, Marianists, I know the Legion of Mary has even had people on street side preaching the Rosary with handouts, in fact didn’t happen until the Arch Bishop (in my knowlledge) Cardinal Roussin of the Order.
    You still don’t mention an error in my theological or Gregorian points. How corrupt will things get here, most corruption of faith and state comes from theocrasies and officialized religious faith within political boundaries in which lay people live.


    Gölök Zoltán Buday
    “No legislative act contrary to the Constitution can be valid. To deny this would be to affirm that the deputy (agent) is greater than his principal; that the servant is above the master; that the representatives of the people are superior to the people; that men, acting by virtue of powers may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what they forbid. It is not to be supposed that the Constitution could intend to enable the representatives of the people to substitute their will to that of their constituents. A Constitution is, in fact, and must be regarded by judges as fundamental law. If there should happen to be a irreconcilable variance between the two, the Constitution is to be preferred to the statute.” — Alexander Hamilton (1757-1804); Source: Federalist #78


  8. Hmmm. I can’t follow. Blame it on my public education, I need it broken down. Allegory is not my strong suit.

    However, it seems that Article 1 is being used to banish God from the public square (again) instead of preventing the government from establishing a religion, and ALLOWING THE FREE EXCERCISE THEREOF.

    Even if someone gets offended. (God forbid).


  9. Well it’s true in the case of the Atheist who wanted the non-religiously specific God removed from the Pledge of Alliegance and even if added to the oath or pledge it is in the Constitution of as the supreme being. However this is an issue where a public square is being made by Theocratic Catholics. The free excersize can only exist if God is left publically non-specific, Emmanuel/Jesus Christ opposed public prayer and preaching, he didn’t encourage what one would call bible thumping. He really refered to it himself when asked on the matter and when preaching among the congregation, in this case were victims of a theocrasy/polytheocrasy. Romans and Zionist Elders.
    I went to the Statist Faith’s Schools as well. Until I could get out anyway. My real teachers were books and parents with reading. Oh and Cathegism.
    I know things from Modern Protestantism and Cults of non-Jesus following to as far back as Zarathustranism (more likely where Christ came from) and likely some Mythric if I know anything of Zarathustra. Give and take. Nothing a regular school would teach you.
    The free excercise of, is basically put by Jefferson as, “….want to prey, go to church, no one is objecting.”
    The age of reason is good balanced view among others, by a religious man with no Church but home.


    Gölök Zoltán Leenderdt Franco Buday
    “[To My Fellow-Citizens of the United States of America
    I put the following work under your protection. It contains my opinion on religion.] You will do me justice to remember that I have always strenuously supported the right to his own opinion, however different that opinion may be to mine. He who denies another this right makes a slave of himself to his present opinion, because he precludes himself the right of changing it.” — Thomas Paine, The Age Of Reason.


  10. Sean’s right, Gölök. This is a case of “free assembly,” not a government imposed religion. Do you instead propose the government ought to *prevent* the free assembly of Catholics?


  11. Due to a persistent and inappropriate trackback on this article, I’m closing comments. Sorry about that.

    Edit: Dagnabbit. Closing comments doesn’t stop the trackbacks, so I might as well open comments back up.


  12. Well, actually, no, this is a city. Not “free assembly” it’s a city, a town of, not the Florida Association of or for Ava Maria. This isn’t a rally. It is a city, it has a council and mayor and therefore a state with an imposed Catholocism, well at least furthered Catholocism. Oh and it’s peaceful assembly and freedom of association. None of which are made up of a political boundary.

    The track backs are weird. The first two posts make no sense.


    Gölök Zoltán Leenderdt Franco (of Asissi) Buday
    “Spiritualism is Religion for those scared of being called religious.” — Gölök Zoltán Leenderdt Franco Buday aka The Black Jester, et al; 2005 (this an some similar sayings).


  13. Gölök, all first posts are moderated, but once I approve a comment, future comments are not moderated. You changed your name and/or email address, so my blog thinks you’re a first-time poster again.

    It *is* a free assembly. Let’s say i want to buy some land and invite 11,000 of my closest friends to move near me. We govern our neighborhood like any homeowner association. Which government rule to you use to prevent me from free association with my Christian friends? That’s precisely what the US Constitution prohibits – government may not abridge the freedom of religion. If you’ll read that article, you’ll see the ACLU would like to object but they haven’t found the legal grounds to do so.

    I agree about those trackbacks; I keep killing them but they keep returning like zombies to eat the brains of the living.


  14. This is not an association or a household; this is a state, a city, even a strata council and union is a government which makes it theocratic and a furthering of religion with state power. As does Vedic city who often claims they are a religion for that protection and not when it’s convienient to pull meditation in school programs. Is it something to do with linking to? (trackbacks?). I have a cults, big brother and anti-statism subsite (Waiting for 1985).
    Oh this media heavy Ava Maria was not praying in the closet but preaching on the street corner as well; in fact the whole project. Theologically it’s not sound.


    Gölök Zoltán Leenderdt Franco Buday
    “Apathy is the root of all evil’s enabling.” — Gölök Zoltán Leenderdt Franco Buday


  15. We must agree to disagree then. God help us if you can derive a statute that prohibits Christians from forming a free association.

    The trackbacks are automatically generated from a WordPress plugin. I think I’m going to have to leave them, distateful as they are.


  16. Just saw the CNN story TM, hah this is funny, Vedic City is a TM and this is founded by a TM. He sites right wing ideologue and Calvanist C.S. Lewis? He’s not Catholic, how is his argument, granted beggining on a existential journey to a brick wall, any more worthy than St. Gregory’s position. You know, if it was a community centre and an expanded campus I’d have less trouble (of course only Vatican owned and run Campuses are real Catholic Ecclesiastical Institutions) with it. This is the “Town of AVa Maria.”

    Gölök Zoltán Leenderdt Franco Buday
    “it is an abomination for a person’s tax dollars to be used to further a faith to which he does not subscribe. You want to pray, go to church. Nobody’s objecting.” — Thomas Jefferson http://en.wiquo.myegopedia.com/


  17. *Mike, In addition: Peaceful Assembly is part of it as well and one can not conflict with the other; not to further a religion from a state position. What a township is. Interesting how you say Christian and not Catholic, since many protestants don’t think of the one and only apolostolic faith as Christian. A Calvanist is not Catholic, Old Catholic (hailing from Cantebury and Utrecht) isn’t even Catholic. Can you say there is no Government? That all living institutions are for assylum and pastors? Or colledge dorms I suppose?


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